If it is a question of the first Dalit PM, then why not Ram Vilas Paswan?'

Lok Janshakti Party leader Ram Vilas Paswan has a very clear view on his political inclination with the forthcoming Lok Sabha Elections in his mind. All the hard work he has done for the 'Janta' especially the 'Dalits' makes him one of the best leaders today.

Ram Vilas Paswan is the most popular face on the Indian political map and the media, and yet so modest he still claims to be a 'common man' with a belief that untill you dont think like the 'Aam aadmi', you cannot take decisions for your people. He thinks big and thinks of the future ahead that is why his stature his on an uphill drive.







Here are the excerpts of an interview with a leading electronic channel, where Paswan talks about his plans for the 'Janta' and of himself.

Q.A leader has to think big and think of the future ahead. Anything can happen in politics. But you, Mulayam Singh Yadav and Lalu together, nobody could have imagined three months back.

Paswan : Its just that whatever happened in the Parliament recently. It’s a disgrace for the country and it’s a deed that brought disgrace to the Parliament also. For now, the whole matter is before the Speaker to be examined. But above all, is the national interest. After that comes the interest of the parties and then comes the individual’s interest. But if an individual’s interest becomes more important than the party’s interest and party’s interest becomes more important than the national interest, than that country goes to hell. Whatever happened here, national interest was never considered. And if something happens that goes against the interest of the country, then the individuals whether Lalu, Paswan or Mulyam, are not considered.

Q.Is it just this or is there something more to it?

Paswan : Lets start with UP, since the beginning we have held the view that there is no difference between Mayawati and BJP. Even now both are talking. Left is also caught between them. Or we can accept that all the parties except Left that are with them and that call themselves secular despite the fact that these parties have stayed with the BJP or NDA.

Q. So you don’t think Mayawati is qualified to be the prime minister?

Paswan : No she is not. It happens at times that media plays up something. They are saying its social engineering. What is it? In Bihar, what per cent of vote Nitish Kumar has? He became the chief minister because people were angry with Lalu Yadav. In Punjab, people were angry with Amarinder Singh, so Badal got a chance. Mayawati became the Chief Minister because people were angry with Mulayam. It was a negative vote. All parties were attacking him and were asking for Mulayam’s removal. She got that advantage.

Q.Tell me something, Ram Vilasji. At this point of time, politics is such that you are the first politician who has said something against Mayawati. Nobody either doesn’t want to say anything against Mayawati or doesn’t dare to. Everybody says off the record that if I say something than it will be said that ‘dalit ki beti ko kuch keh diya’.

Paswan : So if she is a dalit’s daughter, than am I not a dalit’s son.
Look Ram Vilas Paswan has no charges against him. But she has charges against her that she is ‘daulat ki beti hain’. Now a dalit whose status is such that she pays income tax equivalent to Ambani’s or pays the same tax as Ambani’s employees, then that person is no longer a dalit. ‘dalit ki beti’ is being used like a slogan. On one side is dalit ki beti, on other is swaran ka raj and then there is bahujan samaj. Keep on sloganeering. Thaku baniya Brahmin choor baki sab hain Dsphur. Tilak tarazu aur talwar, inko maro joota char. And then change the slogan and say haathi nahi ganesh hain brahma Vishnu Mahesh hain. Brahmin shaankh bajayega haathi badta jayega. She adopts a double standard. She talks differently when she meets dalits, muslims or uppercast keeping in view their considerations. She went to Meerut where muslims had not voted for her last time. There she said muslims are terrorists. Even we have stayed in socialist parties. They were Lohaities. There was Lohai, Madhur Miya, mama Balasar, S M Joshi. They were Brahmins. We used to give slogans that proclaimed equality and the need to uplift the lower castes. It said that power is with the English-speaking upper castes and this situation needs to be remedied. These people were from upper caste and there was no contradiction in their statement. But in this case, they call bad names to upper caste and then change stance. What makes me angry is that the Left parties who used to talk about a classless society till yesterday and who were against caste system, they changed their stance abruptly.

Q.But why did they do so? They are intelligent.

Paswan : They don’t realise that if they push Mayawati or Ram Vilas Paswan, then most of the dalit votes are in Punjab where there is not a single BSP MLA. After that there are votes in West Bengal. When the muslims and the dalits in Bengal start understanding this and adopt caste politics, then Left parties wont be able to stay. Dalits have the least reservation in West Bengal.

Q.In a meeting recently you had at Patliputra you did not speak in a cordial manner to Lalu and then you served him food.

Paswan : Its not my habit to speak offensively about someone. But its true that people in Bihar have become distanced from Lalu. This is also true of Nitish Kumar. People are looking for a third option, which is Ram Vilas Paswan and Lok Janshakti Party. If Mayawati is the leader of the dalits, she should try to enter Bihar. Once she went for a meeting in Gandhi maidan, which is a sacred place she went by helicopter. Even the prime minister or the president go the airport and then travel to Gandhi Maidan which is 5 minutes from the airport. She did this to attract the crowd. But still there weren’t many people.

Q.But people say that now she is being projected as the future prime minister, dalit vote in Bihar will shift to her.

Paswan : It wont happen in Bihar. Her votes in Uttar Pradesh will be cut. There is Parsi vote in Uttar Pradesh which is 50 %, then there is khateek, valmiki vote.

Q.Her votes will decrease?

Paswan : She asks for votes on caste. But there are Ambedkarites among them. She is getting her own statues constructed after demolishing Ambedkar’s. There is the philosophy of Periyar. She has banned the book on periyar and his photos. There are Ambedkarites even among those belonging to the same caste as her. There are many castes in scheduled tribes. In every state among schedule castes, there is Republican party and others, even in the south. Even after she became the CM, she got just 1.75 per cent in Gujrat, 2 per cent in Himachal Pradesh. Where has she reached?

Q.Tell me something. Yours is a small party which gives it the advantage of having flexibility. You have been with the NDA, UPA and third front. You are like the DMK. Is it a possibility that if NDA forms the government tomorrow, you would support them?

Paswan : No. I have said initially that I made the biggest mistake of my life. I had harmed my interests and had drunk poison after losing my temper over Lalu Yadav. Then I had joined the NDA. But in 1998, Atal Bihari Vajpayee’s government was falling because of one vote. Yashwant Sinha, Uma Bharti and others came to my place.

Q.You had given a brilliant speech at that time. You had said that 40 people came with Babar. You didn’t allow others to enter the temple.

Paswan : Yes and I also said that when Babar came Ibrahim Lodhi was ruling the country. Before that was the Khijli dynasty, Tughlaq dynasty, Slave dynasty and Ghauri dynasty. How many people came with those 1,500? And how many muslims do we have today in India, Pakistan and Bangladesh taken together? They are 50 crore. They are not Babar’s children. The biggest reason for this is that till you don’t clean the Ganges, it will continue to breed more insects. Islam is a sacred religion. Islam said everybody is equal before god. If you are not allowed to enter the temples, you can come to the mosques. You eat at the same dastarkhan with others. This was the reason people converted to Islam.

Q.The reason was caste system.

Paswan : Yes. Because of caste system, Sikhism and Christanity came into being. There are 29 per cent dalits in Sikhism. There wont be any Brahmins there. You would find adivasi dalits among christans. Many people converted to Buddhism due to Ambedkar. There were 10 lakh people. All this because of caste discrimination.

Q.So you will never go with the NDA?

Paswan : No. In the beginning, we had said that if JD(U), Nitish Kumar’s party separates from the BJP than we might go with them. But this is not a possibility. They wont leave.

Q.You have worked with different prime ministers- VP Singh, Deve Gowda, Vajpayee, Gujral and Dr. Manmohan Singh. Tell me something about each one of them in a line.

Paswan : VP Singh believed in an ideology and never compromised on any issue related to the dalits. He made a mistake because he was in opposition to the Congress. When it came to the issue of supporting the government, BJP was there to suuport. But even then he never compromised on any issue. I also worked with Chaudhary Charan Singh. His agenda was that of farmers.

Q.You have spoken like a 100 per cent politician. I can tell you whatever happens, elections or no elections you would be on the winning side and you will be a friend.

Paswan : Thank you very much.